If Salvia Isn’t Toxic or Addictive, What’s the Argument for Banning it?
The New York Times has a fascinating piece on the growing hysteria surrounding salvia. Researchers are studying its medical potential, college kids are tripping on YouTube, and state legislators are trying to outlaw it entirely.
All of this may soon provoke an illustrative glimpse at the philosophical dimensions of drug prohibition, in that salvia is powerfully psychoactive, yet shows no signs of addictiveness or toxicity. It isn’t causing crime or medical emergencies. The short duration of its effects allows users to indulge without becoming incapacitated to the point of impacting their daily lives. In short, salvia simply doesn’t fit into the pre-existing categories that drug warriors have carved out in order to justify prohibitions against other popular recreational drugs. So what will they say about it?
Though states are moving quickly, Bertha K. Madras, a deputy director of the Office of National Drug Control Policy, said federal regulators remained in a quandary."The risk of any drug that is intoxicating is high," Dr. Madras said. "You're one car ride away from an event that could be life-altering. But in terms of really good studies, there is just very little. So what do you do? How do you make policy in the absence of good hard cold information?"
Is that a trick question? I give up, Bertha. How? This is the same woman who opposed distributing overdose prevention kits, based on the theory that overdoses might be good for people. So I'm sure she’ll eventually find a solution here that won’t require copious doses of scientific methodology. Rarely in the history of the war on drugs have facts or common sense ever gotten in the way of someone trying to outlaw something. Tell Joe Biden it makes you think you’re a unicorn and he’ll have the Saving American Lives from Volatile Intoxicants Act on your desk by nightfall.
But if salvia is ultimately banned at the federal level simply because it makes you insanely high for 5 minutes, one might interpret that as a long-awaited acknowledgement that the war on drugs really is just an attempt to control our minds.
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redditand not just any psychoactive drug
Comment posted by Anonymous on Wed, 09/10/2008 - 1:36amit's one of the most extremely powerful hallucinogens known to man. And it's completely legal!!!! It's a very bizarre thing, and something which would (hopefully) make anybody reflect upon the drug war.
Hilarity
Comment posted by Anonymous on Wed, 09/10/2008 - 2:24pmI woke up "sick" this morning. After two cups of coffee and a cigarette I am now "well". I wonder how many "intoxicated dumbasses" under the influence of alcohol drove into walls across the U.S. yesterday alone? Considering that some 20,000 to 30,000 people a year are killed by drunk drivers here I must assume that driving into walls should not be considered a serious liability in regard to the use of any particular drug.
Media
Comment posted by Anonymous on Wed, 09/10/2008 - 12:41amI'm sure there will be a Salvia Madness movie before it's all said and don
"To Hell and Back in 5 Minutes", "Salvia is not your Salvation!"
Comment posted by Anonymous on Wed, 09/10/2008 - 2:51amI'm sure we can dust off some of those old anti-drug commericials of the girl diving into an empty swimming pool.
"This is not your parent's LSD"
Comment posted by Anonymous on Wed, 09/10/2008 - 3:01amI'm waiting for someone from ONDCP to say that.
Big Pharma
Comment posted by Anonymous on Wed, 09/10/2008 - 12:48amI have no doubt that the pharmaceutical industry supports this kind of legislation. After all, if chronic pain patients like me could find pain relief from plants, we wouldn't be buying their riduculously overpriced narcotics--which are, of course, all artificial versions of (illegal) plant-based medicine. GRRRRR.
Banning = Bad Move
Comment posted by Anonymous on Wed, 09/10/2008 - 6:49amIf Salvia is banned, people will have to seek out unlawful drug dealers, who won't ask for id, instead of buying from reputable sources. Not only might these guys sell to your kids, who wouldn't be able to get it if it was legal, but you can no longer be sure of the purity. Particularly with extracts, you need to know exactly what's in there, so you can weigh out an accurate dose.
I think the best we can do is promote the responsible use of it, instead of these stupid salvia videos on youtube.
A car ride away?
Comment posted by Anonymous on Wed, 09/10/2008 - 11:41pmI don't know if any of you have tried salvia, but I'd imagine the concept of driving couldn't even be comprehended or thought of while under the influence. Let alone getting the right key in the right way......
I'm not absolutely sure about this but isn't salvia one of those plants that builds up tolerance very fast to where if you were to try and stay "tripping" the whole day your tolerance would be too high??
Cars and Tolerance
Comment posted by Anonymous on Mon, 09/15/2008 - 12:07pmI think driving and salvia would only be a real concern if you started smoking after you're already driving....but so far, there's never been a reported car accident involving Salvia. I'm not positive on the numbers, but I think people have had accidents due to alcohol (and even text messaging----that train crash in CA last week might turn out to be the deadliest texting related accident in history)!
As far as tolerance goes, Salvia is often said to be "reverse-tolerant", meaning the effects kick in EASIER the more you do it...but I haven't come across any experience reports to support this, allow from personal experience I would say that it doesn't seem to build tolerance....
Wanted for High Crimes Against Humanity
Comment posted by Giordano on Thu, 09/11/2008 - 3:21am“So what do you do? How do you make [drug] policy in the absence of good hard cold information?"—Deputy Director Bertha K. Madras, ONDCP
How about “In doubt if an action be just, abstain...”—Zoroaster (6th Century BCE)
Maybe the good-hard-cold data that Dr. Madras needs to become pro-Salvia Divinorum doesn’t exist yet. Maybe it never will. Perhaps in the meantime she can take her cue regarding what to do about salvia from international humanitarian law.
Section II Article 6 of the Nuremberg Charter (1945) reads:
The following acts, or any of them, are crimes coming within the jurisdiction of the Tribunal for which there shall be individual responsibility: …
(c) Crimes Against Humanity: namely, murder, extermination, enslavement, deportation, and other inhumane acts committed against any civilian population, before or during the war, or persecutions on political, racial or religious grounds in execution of or in connection with any crime within the jurisdiction of the Tribunal, whether or not in violation of the domestic law of the country where perpetrated [Emphasis added].
Since no reasonable justification for banning safe salvia use exists, not even one that claims without evidence to protect public health, the only reasons left for prohibiting salvia and other illicit drugs fall into categories that are political, racial and religious; making any such persecution of citizens for possessing salvia and similarly benign psychotropic drugs, by the standard international definition, a crime against humanity.
Under those parts of the Geneva Conventions based upon Article 6 of the Nuremberg Charter, laws prohibiting humanitarian crimes outweigh the laws of the respective countries that support and encourage the crimes against humanity.
Whether the phrase ‘war on drugs’ is or is not a metaphor, an actual or declared war need not exist for humanitarian laws to remain in effect. Individuals themselves, not the countries or their respective governments, are held responsible for the commission of humanitarian crimes.
Thanks to the Nuremberg trials, a universal jurisdiction exists in humanitarian law. Universal jurisdiction means that any nation has the legal power to prosecute humanitarian crimes, and it doesn’t matter in which country the offense took place.
Drug warriors should remain open to the fact that should society one day view drug prohibition as a legal ploy that cannot be justified beyond right wing politics, institutionalized racism, and religious fanaticism and dominionism, they risk being indicted by world opinion with the blessings of the International Criminal Court. Leading drug warriors even risk being arrested the moment they set foot on foreign soil. Stranger things have happened in politics. Let us hope strangeness prevails.
Giordano
Regulate Salvia Now
Comment posted by Anonymous on Thu, 09/11/2008 - 9:12amWhat part of this don't you understand - Salvia is the world's most potent hallucinogen, stronger than LSD. This is proven by research. It targets a receptor in the brain that controls consciousness, our perception of reality and is located in the neurons that play a major role in depression, drug abuse and schizophrenia. The first human studies were completed in June and have shown it causes depression in continued use.
I have a close friend whose kid is struggling w/ salvia use. He feels that it's addictive and he has now graduated on to harder drugs. It's a gateway drug that can suck anyone in. They may not feel it's long reaching effects immediately but they most certainly will over time.
It's very sad that this is just another problem for our kids to struggle with.Absolutely, NO WAY SHOULD IT BE LEGAL.
Contradicting Headline with Final Sentencing
Comment posted by Anonymous on Thu, 09/11/2008 - 12:27pmI thought I'd be in agreement with your headline of "Regulate Salvia Now". Then you conclude your blog with bold lettering not to legalize it. If you're concern about kids getting the stuff, they would have a hardest time obtaining Salvia if it were legal and regulated. What about your concern of a kid's ruined future over a drug conviction?
Many kids abuse alcohol and go on to lead productive lives without the stigma of an arrest or barred from financial aid to college. Is that the way you want Salvia to be handled? Criminalize another temptation to kids in the name of the war on drugs.
If govt doesn't control it, criminals will....
Comment posted by Anonymous on Thu, 09/11/2008 - 10:57pm...and we know they will do a better job of it and have children's best interest in mind.
Salvia addict
Comment posted by Anonymous on Fri, 09/12/2008 - 4:45amI tried Salvia today and got hooked. I'm really depressed now so I think I'll try shooting speedballs.
Federal Agents Posting Anonymous Blogs As Supposed Citizens
Comment posted by Anonymous on Sat, 09/13/2008 - 2:44pmThe disinformation regarding salvia divinorum that was posted by "Anonymous" is patently false. It is not very potent unless greatly concentrated and should not be regulated by the corrupt Federal Government. Even if it were as potent as L.S.D. as the anonymous Federal Agent states, the laws against that sustance were also based on pure hysteria and the influence of extremist "religious" cults within the Federal Government.Anything that increases the awareness of the people is bad for our lying, treasonous Government.
What have you been smoking? Our Bill of Rights?
Comment posted by Anonymous on Sun, 09/14/2008 - 1:26am1. Salvia IS NOT the "world's most potent hallucinogen, stronger than LSD!" Apparently, you've done neither. LSD is much stronger and has a much longer duration! I tried salvia once, and it is by no means addictive. Maybe the problem is some people's personalities allow them to get addicted to anything!
2. It targets the kappa opioid receptor. SO WHAT? Your brain produces DMT, endogenous opiates and cannabinoids, among myriad others! Like it or not, you and everyone else has "illegal" drugs coursing through their veins all day, every day. Get your facts straight, no one here falls for panicked propaganda - are you sure your last name isn't Walters?
3. Your studies: I don't know what studies you've read, but Salvinorin A is being considered for use as an anti-depressant!
4.You still hang on to the laughable "gateway theory." Have you ever drank a beer or smoked a cigarette? Did you end up destitute and mentally ill? Guess what, sex, food, alcohol, adrenaline ALL "suck people in!" Are you SURE your last name isn't Walters?
5. I'll bet the real problem "your friend's kid" is facing is that of an ignorant parent trying to scare the hell out of him or her! In the end, by using scare tactics based on ignorance and bias, I guarantee "your friend's kid" will only do more, and stronger, drugs!
6. Why don't you leave us thinking people alone, and go visit ONDCP's site. You can find some really good, strong, anti-drugs over there, from what I hear...
Actually the studies that
Comment posted by Anonymous on Mon, 09/15/2008 - 12:28amActually the studies that they have done on salvia have shown that out of most cases people come out of it with a lower risk of depression than they had before. A very small percentage had the opposite effects. I researched it fully before I ever tried it. I have done it only a few times since because of the sometimes extreme visual affects.
Salvia lasts for 5 to 10 minutes long and it depends on the person on how it affects them. Websites require you to have a credit card to purchase it and in head-shops they will card you. If your kid is under 18 and is doing it, then the reality of it is you're not being a good parent. It's your responsibility to watch who they hang around and what they do. After 18 parents need to accept what their kids do, because they are adults and need to make their own decisions and mistakes. Make it illegal and watch the usage shoot through the roof. The prices aren't cheap, people can get other drugs cheaper, that is why it isn't that huge of a thing.
While it is an extremely strong hallucinigen there are obviously ones worse. LSD's trips may not be quite as severe as Salvia's can be but they last many many times longer. Five minutes of it and its over. No overdosing and no proven addiction. Authorities would be stupid to illegalize it with no strong evidence.
so dont take it
Comment posted by Anonymous on Wed, 09/24/2008 - 11:43pm-Salvia may be the worlds most potent hallucinogen, but it is still MUCH safer than LSD for LSD's effects can last around 15 hours (obviously encouraging people to drive or attend school/work under its effects) - Salvia lasts a pathetic 5 minutes on average, and after 15 minutes the user is back to normal.
-And yes, Salvia does alter consciousness, perception of reality, and fiddle with neurons - if you don't like that, don't take it. Every human being has the RIGHT to do with their body as they choose especially something as harmless as salvia. Have you never consumed alcohol? What about tobacco? What about all the innocent lives they have consumed? The world is in need of revolutionizing its ideals and looking past cultural relativism... WHAT IS, IS NOT ALWAYS WHAT OUGHT TO BE...
-Never heard of that June study, but even if it may be true salvia has also been proven to cause IMPROVED mood for as long as 48 hours. I'm quite sure theres no studies regarding schizophrenia either. It has been proven that LSD and canabis can contribute to the development of psychosis in an individual over lifetime use, however salvia interferes with a different kind of receptor and therefore, this assumption cannot be made.
-I have to agree salivia is a gateway drug, but is salvia to be blamed for that someone who moves onto LSD, drives, and dies in an accident, or is the negligence of that individual's education system to teach him/her of the negative effects of various drugs. What about their personal responsibility. Our government teaches us to be responsible with alcohol and tobacco, why could we not do the same with salvia?
-Salvia is a very non-addictive drug and FAR from a party drug. Perhaps your friend's child is obtaining it from an unreliable source, perhaps its lined with nicotine...Salvia should remain legal and regulated to be sure such occurances never happen AND it should be strongly taxed! If this was the case, perhaps your friend wouldn't have this problem.
-The drinking age is 21+ and is more strongly enforced in The United States than any other country in the world. Why shouldn't the same apply to salvia?
NONSENSE
Comment posted by Anonymous on Thu, 09/25/2008 - 10:42amI'm 58 yrs old, and have been smoking salvia for about eight or nine years. It's the antithesis of an "addicting drug"--whoever told you salvia is addicting is either lying or pathetically misinformed. You're merely parroting this crap. You have no idea what you're talking about.
you're a moron
Comment posted by Anonymous on Thu, 01/08/2009 - 5:18pmSalvia is not as dangerous as you think. Yes it may be a hallucinogen but it is one of the safest ones. Alcohol is more destructive than salvia. It certainly does not cause depression in continued use. People are just looking for a reason to make it out to be bad. Just like they did with Marijuana, and yet I've still yet to see the statistics on marijuana related deaths, overdosed, and etc. And for you to sit here and say that you know a friend who has a kid who struggles with Salvia use and its addictive is a complete lie. Its all natural and in no way is it harmful nor addictive as it does not contain any addictive chemicals or properties. If it is such a harmful drug why don't you pull up the statistics on Salvia overdoses and salvia induced related deaths, homocides, suicides, and etc. The fact of the matter is that you can't. I love reading posts from people like you who want to lead the army against "illegal" drugs when the fact of the matter is that two legal drugs on the market right now (alcohol and tobbacco) are way more destructive than a simple naturally grown organic plant. You are just another closed minded moron who reads an article online and believes everything about it without doing your own research.
Taking the Fun Out of Life
Comment posted by Anonymous on Thu, 09/11/2008 - 4:54pmThese psychopathic people would completely ban video games over one death. My goodness. How many people have even indirectly died from salvia? One? Zero?
Scott Morgan, I love the last sentence of your post. Very true.
Thanks!
Comment posted by Scott Morgan on Thu, 09/11/2008 - 11:20pmI write so many sentences. It's wonderful to know that they are being enjoyed.
Danger as a pretext for illegality
Comment posted by Anonymous on Fri, 09/12/2008 - 11:31amStop bringing this argument up folks. Dangerous products are for sale all over the United States. We allow adults to smoke tobacco, ride motorcycles and enlist in the military, all of which are more dangerous to your health than some illegal drugs. A products relative safety isn't up for argument in a free society. In a free society adults decide what behaviors in which they engage and they deal with the consequences.
Here's some reasons to ban it...
Comment posted by Anonymous on Sat, 09/13/2008 - 6:09amHere are 8 quality reasons to ban salvia!
Salvia more powerful than LSD?
Comment posted by rita on Wed, 09/17/2008 - 12:06amI don't know where you guys buy your acid, but I'm pretty sure you got burned.
It is more powerful
Comment posted by Anonymous on Wed, 09/17/2008 - 4:08pmA very strong salvia trip can produce complete visionary states (being practically completely transported into another dimension), but it only lasts five to ten minutes. Acid is not nearly as intense but lasts twelve hours. Amazingly, salvia seems to be relatively harmless; at least so far (except for the fact that it can be very scary).
It's hilarious that there is
Comment posted by Anonymous on Tue, 09/09/2008 - 11:53pmIt's hilarious that there is a psychoactive drug that is 100% legal in our market. This will remain legal until some intoxicated dumbass drives himself into a wall under the influence of salvia. Then it will be prohibited along with all the others.